Volume 3: A Long Journey, Chapter 368: Why Such Suffering?

Ksitigarbha remained cold, but Tathagata was not displeased at all. Instead, he stepped down from the steps and went forward, asking, “Where do you come from, Ksitigarbha?”
Ksitigarbha replied, “From the Pure Land.” The Pure Land is a term in Buddhism, referring to a sacred and glorious place filled with purity and merit. It is said that there are countless Pure Lands in all directions in the Western Paradise, the most suitable places for Buddhist disciples to practice. Such as Maitreya’s Pure Land, Tathagata’s Pure Land, the Medicine Buddha’s Pure Land…
Tathagata smiled and said, “How could I not know which Pure Land someone is in?”
Ksitigarbha slowly replied, “Isn’t every place in the world a Pure Land?” Having heard that the destruction of the mortal kingdoms on earth was related to the Buddhist hell, Ksitigarbha felt that the Western Paradise was a place full of filth and hypocrisy, while the netherworld where he had stayed for tens of thousands of years was just as pure as a Pure Land.
However, Tathagata felt uncomfortable hearing this. He often told his disciples that aside from the Western Paradise, all other places were filthy, and the lifelong task of Buddhist disciples was to transform the world into Pure Lands. Once that happened, the entire world would naturally become a realm of ultimate bliss.
With Ksitigarbha’s words, if every place was a Pure Land, then what was the need for Buddhist disciples?
So Tathagata said, “What Ksitigarbha says is not correct. The beings on earth are stubborn, greedy, and indulgent, committing countless sins. How could there be Pure Lands?”
Ksitigarbha replied, “According to what Tathagata says, only the Western Paradise has them.” He neither addressed him as the current Buddha nor as the Buddha Patriarch. It was truly the first time someone had spoken like this in the Mahavira Hall. Everyone found it extremely awkward, but looking at the two of them facing each other, Ksitigarbha, the Bodhisattva King, radiated a brilliance even greater than Tathagata’s, as if he were asking questions word by word.
Tathagata naturally noticed this. Unwilling to let his momentum be suppressed by Ksitigarbha, he leaped onto the lotus platform and said solemnly, “As you say, there are only Pure Lands in all directions, all located in the Western Paradise.”
Ksitigarbha paid no attention to Tathagata’s actions. Nodding, he said, “Since you say so, I have a few questions in mind.”
Tathagata smiled and said, “Since it’s about Buddhist teachings, feel free to ask.” What he really meant was, as for Buddhist teachings, I can certainly answer you, but if it’s about other matters, I may not be willing to engage.
Ksitigarbha said, “Since you say the Pure Lands are in the Western Paradise, my first question is: The Buddha says all beings are equal. Why then are some people born in Pure Lands while others are trapped in the mortal world?”
Tathagata smiled and said, “This question has already been asked before. The so-called equality of all beings means that their fundamental nature is equal, and the Buddha’s compassion, joy, generosity, and equanimity toward them are equal. In the face of karma, all beings are equal, but it does not mean their fates or fortunes are equal. Since ancient times, beings have different amounts of good and bad karma, so naturally, there are differences.”

Ksitigarbha asked again, “I naturally understand this principle. I dare to ask the Tathagata: Are there bodhisattvas who are born in the Pure Land from the start? Is that true or not?”
The Tathagata replied, “Past actions yield present results. If a bodhisattva is born in a humble and filthy place, wouldn’t that be unjust?”
Ksitigarbha said, “Buddhas and bodhisattvas take great compassion as their foundation. If they wish to save all beings, they should be willing to be born in the three realms and rescue those suffering in the five defiled realms and three paths of suffering. Why then seek to be born in the Pure Land to comfort themselves? By abandoning the beings, how can there still be true great compassion?”
The Tathagata was momentarily stunned before realizing what Ksitigarbha was asking. It turned out that the first two questions were just introductions, with the third being the truly challenging one. The Tathagata gazed at Ksitigarbha. He had long known that Ksitigarbha resided in the netherworld to guide souls, thinking him merely an ignorant bodhisattva, but never expecting him to be so restless as well.
At that moment, the five hundred arhats and countless eyes of the Vajra Patriarch were all fixed on the Tathagata. Ksitigarbha’s question was indeed well-founded. They watched to see how the Buddha would respond.
After a while, the Tathagata said, “The Vimalakirti Sutra states, ‘If one cannot save oneself, how can one save those who are sick?’ Bodhisattvas can also be divided into ordinary bodhisattvas and Buddha-level bodhisattvas. Ordinary bodhisattvas must always stay close to the Buddha, develop endurance, and only then can they enter the three realms to rescue beings in a wicked world.”
“It also says, just as a baby cannot leave its mother; if it does, it may fall into a pit or well and die of thirst. Similarly, a birdling with undeveloped wings must cling to trees and branches and cannot fly far. Only when its wings are fully grown can it fly freely in the air.”
“The Prajnaparamita Sutra also says: Suppose two people have relatives drowning in water. One rushes into the water to save them out of urgency but drowns along with them due to lack of skill. Another finds a boat or raft to rescue them, and all are saved from drowning. A newly motivated bodhisattva is the same—without sufficient endurance, one cannot save beings. Therefore, one must always be close to the Buddha and attain imperishable endurance before being able to save beings, just like having a boat.”
After the Tathagata finished speaking, everyone was deeply convinced and silently praised him, thinking that the Buddha’s teachings were truly profound, and his response was excellent.
But Ksitigarbha said again, “A bodhisattva’s understanding is to ‘pursue the supreme bodhi through wisdom and transform beings through compassion.’ Among the four great bodhisattvas who walk among the people in the world, which one does not possess great spiritual power, along with wisdom, compassion, conduct, and aspiration? I disagree with your way of categorizing bodhisattvas. Remember, it is better to seek self-improvement than to seek enlightenment from the Buddha. Are these what you call bodhisattvas, or monks?”
The Tathagata laughed and said, “Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva, the difference between a bodhisattva and a monk lies in the bodhicitta. If you say these are monks, can you point to any monk who can save people in the world?”
Ksitigarbha replied solemnly, word by word, “Of course there are!”

The Tathagata was surprised and said, “How could there be such a person without me knowing?” He looked around the assembly, and everyone shook their heads. On the Spirit Mountain, the rules were strict—monks were not only forbidden from saving others but even leaving the mountain was extremely difficult.

Ksitigarbha said, “Nagarjuna in his past life, Ksitigarbha in this life! This is a true monk!”

When Nagarjuna went down the mountain to spread Mahayana Buddhism, he was indeed not a bodhisattva. But at that time, the Tathagata merely saw the intelligent divine ape as a tool to spread his teachings and paid no attention to his status. It was only after Nagarjuna had accomplished great feats that he was honored as Bodhisattva Nagarjuna. As for Ksitigarbha, he went down the mountain as a monk. Initially unknown, he later received help from the Earth Goddess, becoming the ruler of the netherworld. With such a status, he naturally deserved the title of a Buddhist bodhisattva, hence he was called Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha King in the human world. The Tathagata had overlooked these two exceptionally special figures due to carelessness.

The Tathagata smiled and said, “Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha King, with such innate talent, there are only a couple like you every tens of thousands of years in the Buddhist tradition. How can you be compared to ordinary bodhisattvas?”

The Tathagata tried to save face, but Ksitigarbha wasn’t unforgiving. He acted as if nothing had happened and changed the topic, asking, “Why do people suffer in this world?”

The Tathagata replied, “Due to confusion and delusion, falling into evil over countless lifetimes, unaware of reincarnation, complaining about suffering, and not understanding karma… Why shouldn’t sentient beings suffer?”

Ksitigarbha asked again, “Can people’s suffering be changed?”

The Tathagata sighed and said, “Those who speak of the bodhicitta truly wish to have the heart of a Buddha. Those with such a heart aim to save all sentient beings. Once the heart is in supreme bliss, suffering will cease. Therefore, by following the path of compassion, all suffering of sentient beings can be eradicated.”

Ksitigarbha said, “In that case, the Buddhist aspiration to relieve suffering has never diminished at all.”

The Tathagata replied, “That’s only natural.”

Ksitigarbha said, “I have lived in the netherworld for a long time. At first, I could save a hundred or so people each day and still have time to read scriptures. But after a thousand years, I had to save at least two or three hundred people daily, leaving me overwhelmed. After another ten thousand years, the number of sinners in front of the hall grew like the sands of the Ganges—endless, never-ending…”

As he spoke, Ksitigarbha showed a pained expression. Then he looked straight at the Tathagata and asked, “As Buddhism spreads more and more, why are there more and more sinners?”

The Tathagata replied, “That’s only natural. When heaven and earth first emerged, yin and yang combined to create all things, and their numbers were fixed. But as time passed, things multiplied naturally. What was once the evil of one person may now involve hundreds or thousands. What’s so strange about that?”

Ksitigarbha asked, “According to you, human sins will only increase from now on?”

The Tathagata replied, “It’s hard to say.”

Ksitigarbha said, “If that’s the case, have the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas seated on the lotus thrones in the Spirit Mountain ever felt shame?” Ksitigarbha’s tone remained calm, yet in the silent Mahavira Hall, it sounded like thunder rolling.

Since Ksitigarbha mentioned Nagarjuna’s name, Tathagata had become wary. What exactly was his purpose here? Could it be to avenge Nagarjuna? So much time had passed—why did he come only now? Was he acting on someone else’s orders? Hearing Ksitigarbha shift the topic to the suffering of sentient beings, Tathagata thought to himself that this was still the stubborn Ksitigarbha, unchanged at all.

Tathagata subtly exerted his divine power and spoke loudly to everyone, “I see that Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha, in the six realms, uses countless methods to save beings suffering from sin, never tiring. He is a great Bodhisattva with such incredible supernatural powers. Yet, even after these beings escape their karmic retribution, they soon fall back into evil paths.” Tathagata then looked at Ksitigarbha and said, “You grant people good roots, but whether human or animal, they still must enter this evil world. It’s hard to distinguish good from evil in this world; karma follows them. How can a single lamp at the beginning of reincarnation withstand the endless sea of suffering? Its faint light flickers and goes out at the slightest wind—this is not your fault, but the sin of humans!”

Ksitigarbha asked, “What do you mean?”

Tathagata sighed, “How can I not be deeply pondering this?”

Ksitigarbha also sighed, “How many sins do ordinary people have? In my view, even hell isn’t big enough to hold them all!”

Tathagata was stunned. Ksitigarbha knew about the Buddhist hells! Surely Hou Tu had told him! As he thought about how to respond, Ksitigarbha said again, “What a pity, what a pity, what a pity!”

Tathagata asked, “What’s a pity? And what’s there to pity?”

Ksitigarbha remained silent, walking a few steps around the Mahavira Hall before saying, “Above these halls are all heartless and treacherous people; among these pillars are all those with human faces but beastly hearts! I only pity this magnificent hall and feel sorry for the people who come to this world!”

Tathagata suddenly stood up, anxious and angry. It turned out that all of Ksitigarbha’s talk had been mocking him. No matter how cunning he was, Tathagata could tolerate this no longer. But since he was on the lotus throne, he had to maintain the dignity of a World-Honored One. He suppressed his anger and said, “Ksitigarbha, you’re also a disciple of Buddhism. How dare you speak such nonsense?”

Ksitigarbha smiled faintly and said, “A disciple of Buddhism? I’m merely glad today that I’ve never acted as a accomplice to evildoers. Those so-called Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are nothing but beasts wearing the guise of humans!”

After saying this, Ksitigarbha pulled off his robe, removed his crown, and, aside from the gold rings and decorations, was left in just a plain white garment. Pointing at Tathagata, he said, “Today, I’ll destroy this place of deception!”

Tathagata shouted urgently, “Seize this madman!”

From behind the lotus pedestal, the Eight Vajra Kings leaped out together, followed by Anagata and Kasyapa. The five hundred arhats each cast their spells and attacked Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva simultaneously. Ksitigarbha ignored them and unleashed the spell “Raising Fire to Burn the Sky.” With a loud roar, the golden roof of the Mahavira Hall instantly collapsed and crashed down on those inside. Di Ting opened his massive mouth and roared, causing the spells of the five hundred arhats to halt mid-air, as if time itself had stopped. After destroying the golden roof, Ksitigarbha, along with Di Ting, leaped out of the Mahavira Hall. Once they settled down, they heard continuous crashing sounds from inside the hall—the golden roof of the Ling Mountain Mahavira Hall, which had shone for tens of thousands of years, had collapsed.